Free Online Seminar: The Creation - Evolution Controversy Seminar (2024)

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Originally posted by Rank outsider
In which case, if that is all Jesus said, then Jesus did not "state that humans were created".

But I will wait for Robbie's response before I reach a conclusion.

matthew 19 3-6

Originally posted by Pianoman1
RJH, I'm going to do something I never thought I would - treat you as an intelligent, rational, civilised human being. Answer me one thing: why does almost every bishop, archbishop (including the Archbishop of Canterbury), every cardinal (including the Pope) disbelieve in Creationism? These are your leaders, your moral and spiritual guides, the experts in ...[text shortened]... as you are aware, but if I were I would be eternally grateful to Darwin, as most Christians are.

These same people which you think are highly esteemed by many, also believe Mary is God's mother, the pope is God's representative on earth, endorse hom*osexuality which is clearly called sin in the bible, and many other wild claims that are unbiblical.

The Near Genius

Fort Gordon

Originally posted by Rank outsider
What is your view of the hymn 'All things bright and beautiful'? Bear with me.

Revelations 4:11 states that God created all things. That, presumably, includes me. I was an act of his creation. Indeed, it is 'by his will'.

See Also

The youth can take a leaf out of the book of a man in touch with his masculinity

However, I presume you don't deny that I was also the product of a process by which my mother and father independently con ...[text shortened]... ated man' in an act of creation.

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all.

The process of reproduction is created and designed by God. The instructions are pre-programmed and stored in the DNA. So all biological life is a result of what God did in the beginning. They all are to reproduce after their kind.

And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

(Genesis 1:28 KJV)

There is no mention of evilution, only creation. It looks to me that God owns the copyright on His creation.

The Instructor

Originally posted by twhitehead
Do you yourself understand the arguments in question, or are you just passing them on because they support your religion? If the latter, you are in danger of making yourself and your religion look bad when it turns out that the arguments are badly flawed.
If the former, would you care to discuss any of them in detail?
I, for example, would be interested ...[text shortened]... ology and maybe even some more. That's several million dollars and some serious bragging rights.

No, I do not understand much of the Evolution argument, I am not a scientist.
But I find the following sensible....

Assumptions are fundamental in Historical Sciences. Because a historical event cannot be recreated and observed, there will always be assumptions built into any theory about that historical event. Therefore we can see that in the Creation/Evolution debate nobody has proven anything about the origin of the earth, life, and man. There are basic assumptions being made on both sides of the argument which cannot be definitively proven.

So then, how do you know what is the truth when it comes to history? By testing the interpretations to see if they hold up. For example, most evolutionists believe that life evolves through a process of random genetic mutation and natural selection, [3] but after nearly a hundred years of breeding experiments to see if random genetic mutation (often sped up through the use of radiation) can produce new genetic information and subsequently new genetic features, testing has thoroughly shown that random genetic mutations do not produce new genetic information. As a Christian then, how do I test my assumptions about the Bible and what it has to say about the origin of life? There are certainly scientists doing research and experiments that give credence to the claims of the Bible but even as a Christian who is not a scientist I can test my assumptions about the Bible. By applying the Bible’s lessons in my life I can see whether or not the fruit promised in the Bible comes to pass, if it does then I have evidence that the Bible is true.

Originally posted by Rank outsider
What is your view of the hymn 'All things bright and beautiful'? Bear with me.

Revelations 4:11 states that God created all things. That, presumably, includes me. I was an act of his creation. Indeed, it is 'by his will'.

However, I presume you don't deny that I was also the product of a process by which my mother and father independently con ...[text shortened]... ated man' in an act of creation.

All things bright and beautiful, the Lord God made them all.

sigh its a great pity for your argument that Christ included a dimension of time, adding the phrase, ' from the beginning', which clearly demonstrates that man and women were created at their inception, througha direct act of God as humans, not as another genus and then gradually over an unspecified time, through genetic aberration became humans, thus, Darwinian evolutionary theory and Christianity are mutually exclusive. To cite other instances of the use of term create and what it may apply to does not negate this rather clear Biblical fact. You are the product of procreation, not a direct act of creation on the part of God, despite what your hymn book states.

Cornovii

North of the Tamar

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
then produce the evidence, come on, make with the reddies my man!

I don't need to produce any reddies, I have no horse in this race. The fact remains evolutionary theory is compatible with many peoples faith, not just Christians, making RJHinds assertion that it's an atheist conspiracy mute.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I don't need to produce any reddies, I have no horse in this race. The fact remains evolutionary theory is compatible with many peoples faith, not just Christians, making RJHinds assertion that it's an atheist conspiracy mute.

An atheist conspiracy? Jonah Hinds gives Christianity a bad name. Will you join with me in proclaiming its mutual exclusiveness in regard to Christs teachings?

The Near Genius

Fort Gordon

Originally posted by Proper Knob
I don't need to produce any reddies, I have no horse in this race. The fact remains evolutionary theory is compatible with many peoples faith, not just Christians, making RJHinds assertion that it's an atheist conspiracy mute.

I don't recall saying Evilution was an atheist conspiracy. I believe I said that it was part of the atheist religion. Atheists deny the existence of God and explains everything by the belief in the doctrine of evilution.

http://www.bibleprobe.org/objection.html

The Instructor

Cape Town

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, I do not understand much of the Evolution argument, I am not a scientist.
But I find the following sensible....

".... but after nearly a hundred years of breeding experiments to see if random genetic mutation (often sped up through the use of radiation) can produce new genetic information and subsequently new genetic features, testing has thoroughly shown that random genetic mutations do not produce new genetic information."
The above sentence is false. So although you find it 'sensible', its based on false information.

"As a Christian then, how do I test my assumptions about the Bible and what it has to say about the origin of life? There are certainly scientists doing research and experiments that give credence to the claims of the Bible but even as a Christian who is not a scientist I can test my assumptions about the Bible. By applying the Bible’s lessons in my life I can see whether or not the fruit promised in the Bible comes to pass, if it does then I have evidence that the Bible is true."
Don't forget though that the OP didn't say that the Theory of Evolution was contradicted by the Bible it said it was contradicted by mathematics, genetics, thermo-dynamics, anthropology, geology, biology, zoology and the fossil record.
The problem is that they simply listed a whole lot of lies, and you, not being a scientist, didn't realize it.

As I pointed out earlier, it is trivial to identify whether or not they are lying even without any scientific knowledge. If they genuinely had a case they would be publishing scientific articles or even going for the Nobel prize not holding seminars for people they know are not scientists and won't be able to contradict them.

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, I do not understand much of the Evolution argument, I am not a scientist.
But I find the following sensible....

Assumptions are fundamental in Historical Sciences. Because a historical event cannot be recreated and observed, there will always be assumptions built into any theory about that historical event. Therefore we can see that in the C ...[text shortened]... ised in the Bible comes to pass, if it does then I have evidence that the Bible is true.

But I find the following sensible....
that is your problem, the following is not sensible at all.

"in the Creation/Evolution debate nobody has proven anything about the origin of "
first mistake. there is no creation/ evolution debate. evolution deals with, sensibly enough, the evolution of organisms across generations, not the origin of life, the universe and everything. it no more describes who created the universe than geology describes how to bake cookies.

new genetic features.
so... drug resistant strains of tuberculosis are what? going through a midlife crysis? what is the chihuahua? a dog that didn't get enough to eat? white moths turning grey because of polution from a town's factory? all the fossil records?
so yeah, this is a lie as well. there have been countless experiments.

"the Bible’s lessons "
have absolutely no connection or are influenced in any way by the evolution theory.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
sigh its a great pity for your argument that Christ included a dimension of time, adding the phrase, ' from the beginning', which clearly demonstrates that man and women were created at their inception, througha direct act of God as humans, not as another genus and then gradually over an unspecified time, through genetic aberration became humans, thu ...[text shortened]... rocreation, not a direct act of creation on the part of God, despite what your hymn book states.

jesus spoke in parables. ALL THE TIME. you are simply choosing to believe that noo, that one time he talked about adam and eve he was actually speaking plainly because you want him too. your arrogance is perplexing.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
jesus spoke in parables. ALL THE TIME. you are simply choosing to believe that noo, that one time he talked about adam and eve he was actually speaking plainly because you want him too. your arrogance is perplexing.

yeah because i should believe a spiritual buffet king that Christ, when he made a reference to the book of Genesis and quoted directly from it, 'it is written', he was speaking as in a parable. You have not a shred of Biblical evidence that it was so, not a single iota! you re merely seeking to attempt to justify a weak argument, Christ was quoting, applying ad teaching others what had already been written in the Bible, of which he said, 'your word is truth'. Perplexing? arrogance? what is troubling about stating facts, plainly and simply?

Cornovii

North of the Tamar

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't recall saying Evilution was an atheist conspiracy. I believe I said that it was part of the atheist religion. Atheists deny the existence of God and explains everything by the belief in the doctrine of evilution.

http://www.bibleprobe.org/objection.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjoAhq1zs3E

The Instructor

You essentially said science was controlled by atheists, which is of course utter nonsense.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yeah because i should believe a spiritual buffet king that Christ, when he made a reference to the book of Genesis and quoted directly from it, 'it is written', he was speaking as in a parable. You have not a shred of Biblical evidence that it was so, not a single iota! you re merely seeking to attempt to justify a weak argument, Christ was quoting ...[text shortened]... rd is truth'. Perplexing? arrogance? what is troubling about stating facts, plainly and simply?

what would it take to believe jesus was using a fairy tale to make a point? maybe if the bible inserted "wink, wink" after adam and eve.

maybe if the bible inserted a drawing of jesus there, rolling his eyes and air quoting "adam and eve".

or maybe, just maybe, the scientific impossibility of adam and eve creating the human race through incest.

Originally posted by Zahlanzi
what would it take to believe jesus was using a fairy tale to make a point? maybe if the bible inserted "wink, wink" after adam and eve.

maybe if the bible inserted a drawing of jesus there, rolling his eyes and air quoting "adam and eve".

or maybe, just maybe, the scientific impossibility of adam and eve creating the human race through incest.

the scripture is quite clear, Jesus taught that Adam and Eve were created as a direct consequence of an act of God, from their inception, as humans. Now you can accept the fact or you cannot, it makes little difference to me.